Question:
For pilots who have flown both Boeing and Airbus?
13th Floor
2009-06-02 08:57:52 UTC
Hello: I am a former flight attendant (female), so please excuse my lack of mechanical understanding.
I recall before my airline added Airbus to it's fleet that some of the pilots were reluctant about the switch. They said they didn't like the idea of fly-by-wire technology and although Airbus might fly like a dream under normal operating conditions, they felt there were some inherent dangers in not being able to 'override' the system under certain irregularities. I never really understood this fully; can you please elaborate??
Also, overall, do you prefer Boeing (or the MD's) over Airbus?
Seven answers:
aviophage
2009-06-02 12:58:14 UTC
I flew Boeing 727s and several models of 747s over the years. (Just lucky, I guess!) I am a dyed-in-the-wool Boeing pilot. I had a chance to evaluate the Airbus 340 when my company was considering adding some to the fleet. It was a dreamboat, and I loved flying it. It had some advantages and some disadvantages. Like most things, they pretty much even out. I don't think anyone can really say that either company's airplanes are definitively better or worse. Both companies make great machinery.



The joystick took about 5 minutes to get used to. Still seemed a little wierd, but easy to handle.



(I know there will be some people who will disagree. Okay--disagreement won't kill us.)



What people don't seem to understand on here is that the fly-by-wire system is purely a system of electric servo-motors with computer-enhanced stability. There is no manual backup system, and if the electricity fails in the control system, the flight crew have no further control of the airplane.



However, there are multiple layers of redundancy in the power source for the fly-by-wire system. I think you are more likely to die from the blow on the head from a fish dropped by an eagle than an Airbus is to become uncontrollable because of an electric wipeout.
lucila
2016-05-23 12:10:57 UTC
What unbelievable stupidity in these responses yet again. You asked this at a time of day when most people online are Americans. Hence, you're going to read a lot of "Airbus suck, Boeing raaaawks" answers. Ignore them. The people responding don't know the first thing about either Boeing or Airbus, and are just repeating what they've heard other people say, or think they've heard other people say. The idea that Boeing is 'more reliable', for example. Both Boeings and Airbuses are extremely safe and reliable. Or the idea that keeps popping up here that Airbus doesn't actually test their aircraft, they just do computer simulations. Where on EARTH do these people get those ideas from? Airbuses go through every single real-life test Boeings go through. They are certified to the exact same standards, by the same authorities. For crying out loud, there are dozens of youtube videos available of the physical, actual testing of the A380, and still some people are apparently not intelligent enough to let that be a subtle hint that what they heard someone say might just be wrong. @ugiidriver: seriously, the vertical stabilizer conspiracy theory again? I must admit that it is funny in a way, if it weren't so tragic, that of the three accidents shown (AA, Air New Zealand and AF), two are accidents in which the vertical stabilizer broke off AFTER impacting the water, and the third is a case where it was examined, and it was found that the stregth of the stabilizer had nothing to do with the accident. I mean really, the whole 'it's a plastic tail' thing is so 2001...
Techwing
2009-06-02 12:42:24 UTC
There are two risks to fly-by-wire: (1) the computers may fail, causing a total loss of control; and (2) the computer software—either by design or by accident—may not allow a pilot to do something that he has to do in an emergency to save the flight.



The first issue is addressed by having as much redundancy as practical in the computer systems and their mechanical actuators, in order to reduce the likelihood of a total failure that would make control of the aircraft impossible. Ideally, the redundancy should be great enough, and the probability of failure low enough, to at least match or exceed the expected reliability of purely mechanical systems. Fly-by-wire is still relatively young, and accidents are very rare among airliners, so the exact relative safety levels of fly-by-wire versus purely mechanical systems are still an open question.



The second problem is more ominous. On the one hand, engineers insist that pilots should not be allowed to do certain things, no matter what the circumstances, because they might damage the airplane. These engineers program fly-by-wire systems to simply refuse any control movements by the pilots that look "dangerous" to the computers. On the other hand, pilots insist that they be allowed to do anything, just in case—that's what they are there for, after all. Pilots want the fly-by-wire system to do whatever it's told in an emergency, even if it might bend the airplane. I tend to side with the pilots. There's not much point in having pilots to handle an emergency if they try to make the plane do something that will save the flight and the fly-by-wire computers simply say "no."



The problem of software bugs is also quite a concern. Although aviation software is much more carefully designed and tested than the software on your desktop computer, it is not possible to guarantee that it is bug-free with 100% certainty, and digital systems (those run by computer, such as fly-by-wire) have a nasty tendency to fail catastrophically when things go wrong. It has traditionally been a nightmare scenario of science-fiction to imagine a computer that has total control of a situation and then goes haywire, but unfortunately that scenario does have some basis in fact. When you give computers total control, you're putting your lives in the hands of whoever programmed the computers. Computers themselves are reliable, but the software that makes them behave (which is written by human beings) often is not.



The Boeing/Airbus difference is that Boeing tends to take the pilot's point of view, whereas Airbus has long taken the engineer's point of view. An Airbus is great as long as no maneuvers are required that violate the engineers' idea of what is right; if the pilot needs to do something that the computers don't like, though, he's doomed. A Boeing is great as long as you have a competent pilot who will let the computers do their job and will heed any warnings given by the computers; but if the pilot does something really stupid, the computers are less likely to stand in his way.



And yes, there have been cases where fly-by-wire might have been a problem. The Gimli Glider, a Boeing airliner that had to glide to a landing, might have crashed had the pilots not been able to perform a slip to reach the runway. Boeings let the pilots cross the controls in the way required to perform this maneuver, but an Airbus normally considers such a use of the controls to be an error, and may refuse to do it. (How true this is for Airbus, I don't know—they do have "direct law" and other features that might allow pilots to get past this—but one of the pilots claimed that they would have crashed in an Airbus, as I recall.)
Chris H
2009-06-02 09:52:11 UTC
On older aircraft the controls were power assisted, rather like the power steering on a car, so when you pull on the yoke you are applying a force which is magnified by hydraulic or electrical servos. But if the servos weren't there you'd still be applying force to the control surfaces and you'd still have control, but you'd need arms like a gorilla. Boeing 707s actually had cables running to the control surfaces.



But modern aircraft have no physical connection, there may be a 'direct' hydraulic connection, but in reality the computers decide what to do when the controls are moved. 777 and 787 are as fly-by-wire as A320s even if Boeing doesn't like to admit it. Modern engines aren't cable controlled either, even if a cable ran to the engine it wouldn't control the fuel valves, just pass on a suggestion to the engine. Back in the old days the JT9Ds on early 747s had to be babied along or they'd run too hot or surge or otherwise disgrace themselves. With modern engines you can fly them like a fighter, just stick the throttle where you want and leave the computers to work out how to make the engine do that. It's the same on many modern cars, there's no throttle cable, just a throttle position sensor under your foot and a motor on the throttle valve.



On the A320 it is just a lot more obvious that you are not actually connected to the controls, that side stick isn't going to do anything if the computer is dead. But making it a moving yoke wouldn't make you any safer. Still, the impression is uncomfortable for some.



If you look out of the window of something like a 747, 777 or A380 when it is manoeuvering you will see aelerons and spoilers going opposite directions with apparent lazy ease. But those panels are the size of a bed and they are being stuck out in to a 200 knot airflow. A human can't do that. A human also can't pick the right panels to use, modern aircraft don't rely on conventional aelerons like you'd see on a model P-51.
Vincent G
2009-06-02 11:46:46 UTC
For the record, the Boeing 777 is also fly by wire. As will be the next Boeing model, the 787.

Fly by wire is here to stay.



But let me ask you a question: do you know of any accident that was prevented because a pilot was able to override a fly-by-wire system?





To techwing below: the Gimli incident involved a 767, which is not a fly-by-wire aircraft. So what is your point then with respect to this specific incident?
null
2009-06-02 11:33:58 UTC
Airbuses fly by wire sends a signal from the control you move to a computer that then moves the surfaces.



Boeings use mechanical physical cable from one thing to another.



Now what would happen without electricity?



Boeing... Nothing..



An airbus, the pilot would not beable to drive the aircraft because there would be no power for the comptuer
anonymous
2009-06-02 09:25:27 UTC
As I understand it, you can override to manual. Just that the old way had hydraulics directly to the surfaces.

Dr Antony


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
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