Do the airline companies listen to the flight recorder just to bust the pilots?

Question

I mean do they do it to listen in on what they say to hear if they are talking smack about the company?

Answer 1

No. But they do check whether they adhered to SOPs. They do that via QAR device, which receives the same information as DFDR, but is easier to access. Too fast approach or too late L/G down and the pilot may be in trouble.

Answer 2

No! The CVR is a very important safety tool and pilots need complete confidence that any conversation which goes on in the cockpit will stay in the cockpit.



If they did not have that confidence, conversation in the cockpit would either dry up or the recorder would get switched off.



Communication between the crew is vital to the safe conduct of the flight and if it all goes pear-shaped it is important to know what the pilots were doing, so there has always been an agreement that these recordings can only be used to establish the cause of the crash. They cannot even be used as evidence if the pilot is to be prosecuted.



There was a DC10 Crash in Antartica some years ago and it took a lot of legal argument before even the Public Enquiry into the accident was allowed to hear the tape.



In actual fact, the recorder only records for 30 minutes and then overwrites itself, so they can only hear the last 30 minutes at most. In most accidents that means that the aircraft is in the descent phase at the time the recording starts.



There is a convention that during descent the crew maintain a "Sterile Cockpit" and the only conversation relates to getting the aircraft back on the ground safely. My airline adopted this policy below 20,000 feet and all airlines do it below 10,000



This is not to defeat the CVR, it is to avoid the pilots being distracted at a critical stage of the flight. So it becomes unlikely that there would be anything but operational matters to be heard anyway.

Answer 3

No. There is a sort of gentleman's agreement that the authorities and the companies will only start checking flight recorders when something has actually gone wrong.



There have been attempts in the past to police the pilots by accessing the data. There have also been attempts to penalize pilots for reporting problems, especially human factors issues, but right now I think the last company stupid enough to try that stopped.



The problem is that when you tell the pilots anything they say can and will be used as evidence they stop talking. That causes huge issues. So we prefer free and open communication and in return we let them say what they like so long as nothing bad happens.

Answer 4

Once again, most of the answers are based upon USA FAA requirements and that problem was taken care of many years ago by American pilots. In the land of the other other 95% of the planets population this subject was a different problem.



When the FDR (Flight Data Recorders) and later DFDRs (Digital) came out as well as the CVRs (Cockpit Voice Recorders) the pilots threatened to shut them down because of this problem. It was very serious and as a result the FAA stated the data could only be retrieved (used) in case of an accident. Later that was expanded to add incidents. Now if a catering truck hits the plane the company or Feds can pull the “Black Boxes” that are actually orange if they are powered.



HOWEVER, that is not the case in much of the rest of the world. Many companies and agencies do pull and listened to the boxes on a regular basis. The boxes are not easily accessed (mostly in the tail) but when the companies take their planes to the hanger for any heavy maintenance the data is retrieved and listened too.



Many pilots think the data can only record for a limited period (usually 30 minutes) and while that is true (and the tapes are overwritten) technology has developed whereby several “layers” of data can be easily recovered. Any modern airline can retrieve the last several flights even if the pilots pushed the erase button (ask Hoot Gibson and his "now let them figure it out" statement from an un-powered CVR.)



This procedure is usually done on older aircraft because the newer ones have a “SNICH” box built into the plane by the manufacturer. This technology is vast and records much more information than the best black-boxes and while MOST (the next generation will) systems today do not record voice data there is enough information available to just about tell you everything the pilot did.



Today this is called FDM (Flight Data Monitoring) and consists of such nice tools like Airbus’ AirFACE or Boeing’s FOQA FDM systems. But it has gone further to the point where airlines are required to have a post holder position that oversees the monitoring of these trends.



Yes, it is true that in the USA many airlines (mainly the majors) strip the identifying characteristics from the data but it is easy to put two and two together. In the rest of the world there is not even this veil attempt.to protect the pilots. In the Middle East, Asia, some European LCCs and USA LCCs monitor the data regularly (hourly in some Middle East Airlines) and punish the pilots accordingly.



These punishments range from multi-thousand dollar/euro fines to outright termination. I personal know a pilot fired from Emirates Airlines for being stable at 950 feet instead of 1000 feet. In some cases it is so bad that waste is rampant. Fear of responses puts large margins of “safety” on pilots which produces huge amounts of waste and the perceived safety is actually danger. In many cases it is tantamount to a driver say it is “safer to drive 30 miles per hour instead of 60.” Sounding true the driver drives 30 and causes a 50 car pileup on the freeway because everyone else was doing 60 and he was a hindrance to the safe flow of traffic. The same is true in the air!



But if you would like you can read Ryan Air’s statement on safety and – well read between the lines. Take note of the two phrases I highlighted. “Monitor…and inform management…”and “management is able to…take steps to rectify.”



“Monitor…and inform management….” Most airlines outsource this data to third party operators who use the parameters set by management as the windows. These companies are paid by management, if management wants to know what flight number, where to and on what date; these companies do one of two things. Give it to the company or lose the contract with the company for failing to do so.



“Management is able to…take steps to rectify.” YOU’RE FIRED!



“Ryanair has installed an Operational Flight Data Monitoring (OFDM) system on each of its Boeing 737-800 aircraft, which automatically provides a confidential report on the procedures followed by pilots. The purpose of this system is to monitor operational trends and inform management of any instance of an operational limit being exceeded. By analyzing these reports, management is able to identify potential areas of risk and take steps to rectify any deviations from normal operating procedures,”

Answer 5

hahaha no. if they did, there would be a lot of pilots in trouble, maybe not for talking smack but for other things. pretty much the only time anyone will listen to the flight recorder is if the plane has been in an accident or maybe an incident.

Answer 6

No, they mostly use the flight recorder for you know, determining the cause of crashes. You question runs into an Orwellian paradox: how are the airlines paying people to monitor every flight? Considering they haven't shown a profit in forever? Or even most of the flights? And who watches the watchers?

Answer 7

No. They need a definite cause of an accident. Pilots are instructed to give account by account specifics of what is going on in emergencies.



They recite elevation, speed, engine performance, etc; when an aircraft is not operating correctly in mid air.



They are also used to prove liability and such in court for negligence cases against the company.





My father worked for an aviation company and told me a story about a crew of a chartered flight singing "Simple Man" when they knew their aircraft was going down and they couldn't do anything about it....

Answer 8

considering the silly fact that the recording loop is overwritten every four hours or so, they don't have enough recording to even capture entire flight (bar the island hopping and regional transport).



sorry to burst your bubble.



the most likely means of acquiring sensitive information is from ... other personnel, pilots, stewards and such. from spineless persons willing to jump up the ladder of seniority.

Answer 9

A union worker would have to be paid to remove it and document it. Pilots would know that, and also probably be told by the techs. This line of thinking is not economically sound.

Answer 10

I always hoped they did, because I always ended my preflight checklist with an audible F.U. to the company president, who was the biggest dick to ever run an airline.

Answer 11

I think they do.