does flying hours include taxiing?

Question

well i just started to fly yesterday and suddenly while were taxiing for take off the VFR is closed because of low clouds so my instructor just decided to teach me highspeed taxiing for about 30 mins and then we parked

so im wondering if the 30 mins of high speed taxiing included to my flying hours? because the school charged my 30 mins flying rate

well im kinda hesitant to ask them
thats why im asking you folks

Answer 1

Technically, Flight time means:

(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing;. Going out and taxiing is good practice, but No PIC or Dual recieved time should be logged in this case.

Answer 2

Technically you can only log flight time if you had the intention of flying. While you did have the intention of flying when you started up the plane, you quickly no longer had that intention when the clouds came in. Some would argue that at that point, you can no longer log it. This is one of those things that CFIs would probably argue about for hours. Now, you could say "My instructor and I taxied out, with the intention of flying but the clouds came in. So we decided to practice high speed taxiing for 30 minutes with hopes of the weather clearing. After 30 minutes, it didn't clear, so we called it quits and went back in".......log it.



An example of when it wouldn't be is if you were taxiing the plane over to a maintenance hanger.



PS don't let your instructor waste 30 minutes of your money again. There's no reason to practice "high speed taxiing" for 30 minutes when you 2 should have been covering ground stuff (at a much cheaper rate), or simply cancelled the lesson.



PPS no one's going to ever inspect your log book to that detail. If you honestly feel you deserve the 30 minutes of flight time for that work, log it, if you feel like it doesn't count, then don't. In the end, 30 minutes is nothing and won't really make a difference anyway.

Answer 3

Well I see that everyone else has basically beat this to death so I won't add much. General rule of thumb- if you have the intent to go flying but can't (i.e. weather) and you come back- Log It. I think however that while initially you had the intent that changed when your instructor decided to do high speed taxiing. My 2¢.



**Bigger Issue-** Your instructor decided to teach you high speed taxiing. I have over 250 hours I've gotten my private, instrument, and commercial certificates/ratings and I have NEVER done high speed taxiing. Sounds to me like your instructor is wasting your time, and more importantly YOUR MONEY! I would be furious if any of my instructors did that. I would talk to some other people around the airport and find another instructor.

Answer 4

As someone else mentioned technically any time after initial brake release to the final parking of the aircraft can be logged as flight time BUT that only counts when you have "the intent to takeoff". Going out and only intending to taxi around for 30 minutes doesn't constitute the intent to fly so that time is not loggable.



I would inform your instructor that unless you'll be getting some legitimate flight time you will not be using his services. This "high speed taxi" junk is a ploy used by some flight schools when the weather is down to continue billing their students. Don't except it and threaten to walk if they plan on using you as a poor weather ATM.

Answer 5

WATCH OUT fellow pilots, because most of you are misinterpreting the FAR's.



I used to log anything that made the Hobbs meter (plane engine time recorder) click. But while teaching a Commercial groundschool one day, my boss pointed out two key words.....



FAR 1.1

Flight Time: .....commences when the aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing.



Say it with me... AFTER LANDING. So no take off means no landing, which means no flight time, regardless of your intent to fly. Many argue otherwise, but it's RIGHT THERE in the regs, clear as mud.



So issue one... can you log it? Yes, if you want, but it's not necessary, and cannot legally be counted towards your rating (or total flight time). You could add it as a note that you had extra taxi practice in the 'Remarks' section.



Issue two... the charge. You will pay for each 0.1 hours you put on your aircraft (with engine running). BUT if it was a normal wx (weather) cx (cancellation), you would not normally pay anything... you taxi back, they don't charge you, or you argue otherwise.



HOWEVER. You said you JUST started to fly. Controlling the airplane on the ground is as vital as controlling it in the air! Now if you had 30 hrs under your belt, this would be another story, but I feel your instructor made a good choice in getting you more comfortable in your ability to taxi. Just starting out in flying is extremely overwhelming... anything that you can feel comfortable doing at this point is a HUGE bonus, and no doubt, this added to your comfort in taxiing.



No joke - I have seen a student doing her first solo lap in the pattern, grease on a great landing, but fumble with the steering/brakes, and veer off the side of the runway and into a ditch. I have also had to observe two student pilots' abilities to taxi when they caused a runway incursion - the FAA said it was that, or they lose their student pilot certificates. Scary stuff. Consider your lesson insurance against this stuff happening to you!



Good luck up there!

Answer 6

So long as you intended to fly when the aircraft began rolling, it is legally a flight. You can log the time.



Presumably, the school charged you because:

1) It took the instructor's time.

2) It consumed fuel.

3) The time on the meter counts towards when the plane needs its next 100 hour check, oil change, and engine overhaul.



True story: Pilot lands his plane. Parks it in temporary parking, planning to leave in a few hours. He goes to a bar with some friends. He has too many drinks. Decides he can't fly as planned. But he won't leave his plane in temporary parking. No problem, a friend offers him a hangar.



He gets in the plane, starts it, and goes to taxi to the hangar. A combination of too much speed, poor control technique, and weird winds causes him to become partially airborne and smash into a hangar.



Fortunately, he has plenty of witnesses who corroborate his story that the flight was unintentional. The FAA has no jurisdiction, since the operation was not, legally, a flight. Nobody intended to fly.



I think state he was in argued that they could get him for a DUI, again, because it was not a flight. He was certainly over the limit for driving too, and the FAA could act on his DUI conviction if they wanted to.



If your instructor won't sign off on the time, ask him this: "If we had crashed into something while taxiing, do you think the FAA would agree that this was not a flight? What if we were a passenger plane and had an accident?"



Oh, and to reply to: "Flight Time: .....commences when the aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing. Say it with me... AFTER LANDING. So no take off means no landing, which means no flight time, regardless of your intent to fly. Many argue otherwise, but it's RIGHT THERE in the regs, clear as mud."



Every time an aircraft comes to rest, other than before its very first flight, it comes to rest after landing. Or are you seriously arguing that if you stop on the runway, you can't count taxiing in the flight time (since it has come to a stop after landing), but if you roll off the runway you can? That's a pretty nutty interpretation.



If you were correct, something else completely nutty would be the case. If you got into an airplane intending to fly, rolled the plane, and then hopped out, you could count flight time until you landed the plane the next day and stopped. After all, the flight time started, but didn't end until after the plane's next landing.



That's an obviously absurd interpretation and I doubt anyone but you believes it.

Answer 7

I learned how to fly from an old WWII squadron commander who loved to fly for the sheer thrill of it. His J-3 cubs rented for $4 a half hour and $7 for the hour. Your time started when the wheels left the ground, although the training began when you fastened your seat belt. When he went out of business - I had to transfer to the local FBO at a regional airport - and your time began when you cranked the engine - at $35/hr - whoeee - wish I had hurried up and flown with him more. all the best and yes - that 30 mins counts!

Answer 8

Sounds to me that your instructor was just wanting your money. I say this because you and your instructor should have made the "go no go decision" prior to even having gotten into the plane. At least your flight instructor should have known when he checked the weather as to whether or not y'all could have proceeded under VFR. I mean why waste gas and time just taxiing? Good Luck!

Answer 9

The poster who said 30 minutes is nothing, log it if you want: I would suggest that if he is going to log it, that he not carry it to the "flight" column. It could be logged as ground instruction. By the way, simulator hours are not carried to the "flight" column, even at $1,000 per hour.

(Taxiing for the purpose of flight is logged as part of your flight time.)

Answer 10

What everybody said about "intent to fly"; the FAR says "... for purposes of flight." You had no purpose other than to run up a bill for your flight school and you CFI to make some money.



You need a new one(s).

Answer 11

i believe the air law states the flight hours are being logged from the start of motion /=chocks removed/ /or start of rotors spinning for helicopters/ to "chocks set" =end of motion.



However at the present state of your qualification your instructors should better invest into real flying rather than teaching you taxiing.

Answer 12

Unless you were air taxiing (and in which case you would probably be in a helicopter), then unfortunately no.

Answer 13

Yes, you can log it in as hours. As long as the hobbs meter is running, you can log it. You just cant log any landings.

Answer 14

You should ask them, as you are paying for it right?