Question:
VFR Traffic Advoidance?
flightav8r
2009-10-13 12:21:48 UTC
Hey quick question for the actual pilot's in the forum:

I was traveling to a destination the other day and had a close call like never before that woke me up to say the least. I am going to paint the picture and then ask a couple of questions.

I was cruising northeast bound (heading 040) VFR at 3,500 ft and about 20 miles from my destination in my C172. I switched over to the destination's CTAF and caught the trail end of a pilot making a call of a departure straight out off of Runway 32 in a Piper. I announced my position and attentions and asked the departing aircraft where they were heading (I know that it is not proper protocol to ask but I typically do to be safe). The departing Piper did not answer and after my call another aircraft called their position and intentions which was another C172 inbound from the south at 3,000. After about 3 minutes and 13 miles out I was able to make visual contact with the other C172 at 2 o' clock, affirmed on the radio I had him in sight and said I would follow him in. Just then as I was about to turn towards the east to line up behind the 172, the Piper comes into my wind screen straight and level (not climbing) about 1 mile away and slightlty to the right of my plane. I immediatley turned the plane into a hard left turn and had about 1/4-1/2 mile seperation to my right side.

Now, in retro-spect, what can I do to prevent this from happening?

I am thinking I spent too much time looking for the C172 but with the straight out departure call, I wasn't too concerned about an oncoming plane.

In other pilot's experience, Do these kind of close calls happen often which is why it is always important to be scanning the sky for traffic?

I turned left opposite to FAR, however, that was my only safe move. Turning right would have put me right in the path of the oncoming traffic. What if the Piper turned properly to the right, what would be my next move, climb?

And how about the fact no call back from the Piper on his departure in response to me and cruising at an odd altitude traveling to the west? Was he just an exception to a rule?

Biggest question though - What can I do to prevent it from happening again?

Thanks!
Nine answers:
anonymous
2009-10-13 15:03:37 UTC
I wasn't there, so I cannot criticize what you did, but these observations might help:



1) What was your altitude AGL? 3,500 MSL in my part of the country puts you at treetop level. The Piper was at a legal altitude if you both were under 3,000 AGL. It might also have been "cruise climbing". Unless a plane is climbing at a very high rate, shallow climbs are hard to detect in only a few seconds of looking at them unless you are very, very close to them.



2) The Piper pilot may have switched immediately to an ATC frequency upon departure if he was on an IFR flight plan. It was bad technique on his part either way, whether he switched frequencies too quickly or simply ignored your call, but he was under no compunction to communicate with you. On the other hand, regarding yourself, if you are equipped with two comm radios it doesn't hurt to monitor more than the local CTAF. CRM dictates that you should use "all available" sources of information at your disposal. The local frequency used for instrument approaches in that area would have been suitable. According to the regs, pilots are responsible for familiarizing themselves with ALL pertinent information...



3) When you have multiple "conflicts", the one with the greatest closure rate on your position is your biggest worry, hence the Piper and not the other Cessna should have properly required more attention. In addition, the other Cessna was aware of your presence, so you didn't need to worry about him quite so much since you obviously had other things to worry about as well.



4) Something you can do in future, whether you are the departng aircraft or the inbound aircraft is to make a quick calculation of how much time / distance / altitude would elapse before you would conceivably have a conflict problem. Lets say that you were cruising at 110 kts and the departing Piper was "cruise climbing" at 90 kts. It's a reasonable guess. With a closure rate of at least 200 knots (3.3 miles per minute) you can figure that you and the Piper might be converging in roughly 6 minutes or less starting from 20 miles out. I would have devoted 3-4 minutes max to looking for the other Cessna (as well as other unannounced aircraft) and then would have focused more attention (not all of it) in the direction of the outbound Piper.



5) "Target fixation" has killed many a pilot, military and civilian. In other words, don't let something cause you to have "tunnel consciousness" (as I call it) while flying. Keep ALL your wits about you instead of focusing too much on a single thing. A lot of tragic accidents have happened that way.



6) Were you showing a landing light? If worried about a potential conflict, turn it on!



7) It appears that you made a knee-jerk maneuver. Unless something is imminent (as in happening in the next 5 seconds), take a deep breath, think for a moment, and then react.
RickH
2009-10-14 04:34:46 UTC
1) I spend a lot of time in small airplanes, and your call to the guy asking his intentions was not abnormal, unusual, or a violation of protocol. I would have asked again at least twice before I gave up.



2) On the first call, you were at 3500' which I assume was MSL. I am also assuming that you were descending, so that by the time that this near miss occurred, you were below 3000' AGL. You may have been below 3000' AGL when at 3500 MSL. Keep in mind that the hemispherical rules only applies at altitudes above 3000' AGL. I made some assumptions here, which may be incorrect, but it would seem as if they guy was not doing anything wrong or non-standard.



3) Nothing wrong with a straight out departure either. The FARs only require that any turns be made left or right, depending on the traffic pattern. Straight in, straight out are not only allowed, they are often required for pilots practicing for their instrument rating. It is possible that the reason that you got no response is that he was initiating a call to center or approach to pick up his IFR clearance.



4) The natural tendency is to turn, but in a real near miss, I would prefer to climb or descend. Even a 45 degree bank takes significant time to develop, while an emergency climb or descent will, IMHO, displace the airplane much faster. There is a reason that TCAS uses climbs and descents to avoid conflict.



5) FAR 91.3 says that a PIC may deviate from... So your turn the wrong way is a big nothing. Do whatever you think necessary.



6) Close calls happen all the time; especially at non-towered airports. See and avoid, effective visual scanning techniques, head mounted on a swivel, are all important.
Tracy L
2009-10-13 15:39:20 UTC
Not to unusual at all. In fact I had a similar story on an IFR practice approach. Problem with head on traffic is that it is harder to spot than other traffic off to one side or the other, Its just a "small dot" and its NOT moving across the field of view and its not changing in size very fast until its close.



Always look for head on traffic more than other traffic!



If the ground level was say 600' where you were then 3500 is a legitimate altitude for both of you. I would have put the nose down first and turned second , but then I too fly a low wing and can see better above. Remember vertical changes are just as effective as horizontal and usually can be done quicker.
Rob G
2009-10-13 12:49:28 UTC
It sounds like you were fixating too much on the C172 and not maintaining a good visual scan. Simple as that. Radios are not required for VFR flight so saying "the guy didn't make a call", or "the guy didn't respond to my call" are no excuses.



Flying at an odd altitude? Maybe he was really climbing but you couldn't notice it? Plus, lots of pilots, unfortunately, fly at the wrong altitudes. You can't count on the FARs to keep you from hitting someone in the air.
FanMan
2009-10-13 14:47:06 UTC
1/4 mile isn't close call. Last weekend I was on downwind in the traffic pattern, reporting on the CTAF, and a faster aircraft passed between me and the airport, at my altitude, within 100 feet. He made no radio calls, turned base and final in front of me, made a low pass, and departed.



1/4 mile is not unusual. 100' IS unusual.



Not all pilots use the radio, and 20 miles out in a 172 is too far to call; it's just needless radio chatter at that point.



Also not all pilots pay attention to VFR cruising altitudes, which at their best simply insure that all midair collisions take place at angles of 179 degress or less.



The proper solution is what others have said... keep your head on a swivel, especially near an airport.
Warbird Pilot
2009-10-13 12:41:26 UTC
Airplanes fly because of Bernoulli, not Marconi. Radios are nice, but not required so keep looking out the window.



By the way, a quarter mile isn't a close call. I learned to look out the window years ago on my student cross country. The US Army UH-1 I almost hit was flown by a guy with a brown mustache, a dirty T-shirt on under his flight suit and a gold ring with a green stone on his right hand.



Don't worry about turning left, to paraphrase Mark Twain, when asked if he knew where the snags were in the Mississippi, he said no, "but I know where they ain't". Go toward any clear air, always.
whitehead
2016-09-22 14:18:04 UTC
Just to explain something, ATC will (in which correct, workload allowing) provide IFR visitors vectors round VFR visitors they aren't speakme to. If the IFR airplane does no longer spot the VFR visitors, ATC will by and large do anything they may be able to to be certain they may be able to affirm IFR separation. The series perhaps that ATC calls the visitors to the IFR airplane. The IFR airplane does no longer record the VFR airplane in sight. ATC watches the 2 planes look to converge on his radar, after which instructs the IFR airplane to climb, descend, or flip if they don't see the visitors. If the altitude of the VFR visitors is unknown, ATC will by and large expect that the airplane is in general too prime or too low to subject. They might make visitors calls to IFR airplane, time allowing, however they are not going to request a path or altitude difference.
anonymous
2009-10-13 12:29:30 UTC
Yes, on his departure simply cruising at an odd altitude. I guess that's just reality
Dr. Moretta
2009-10-13 12:57:39 UTC
Not everyone follows the rules. That is why you really have to pay attention.


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
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